Leighton – one thing I’ve always been fascinated with is your past in watchmaking.
I think the study of horology is perhaps more accurate. It’s not making watches from scratch, but more around repairs and maintenance and understanding mechanical workings and I did it for about five years.

Right. And this is in Brisbane and at a young age? 
I was 17 and it came up as an opportunity and seemed at the time as a good thing to pursue. Honestly, I didn’t enjoy high school – it wasn’t my favourite thing. So, trying to forge ahead in a different path felt the right way for me to go.  

Did this study of horology help foster or grow interest in design mechanics and how things come together?
I think it honed my attention to detail. But after five years in watchmaking as a trade, it’s the fork in the road. You go and pursue the big guys, so you go work for IWC or Rolex or the likes, or you do it as a small trade in which people work at the desk. It’s quite intense and didn’t work to my aesthetic, let’s say. So, I found an interest in interiors. Again, I don’t really know where it came from, but I found an interest in interiors in my early twenties and started pursuing interior design as an educational route.  

You found Space pretty early on given it’s been ‘home’ now for 23 years. 
I remember walking in to Space Furniture in Brisbane and going, ’oh, I’m going to work here.’ Not in an arrogant way, but just in the sense that I would love to work for them. And then it happened fortuitously and very quickly and I was really fortunate to start working with the team.  

And you started out in sales?
I did.  

What drove that initial and immediate attraction?
On the first floor there was Cassina, and I had no idea what Cassina was – I was from Queensland, so my knowledge of Italian design was non-existent. But I remember seeing a Piero Lissoni piece, like the ‘Reef’ sofa and just had an appreciation for it. And maybe it came from watchmaking, but there was an appreciation for craftmanship and quality and design. It just resonated straight away. Also, the architecture of the building – it was purposely built and there was that character, that architectural envelope for the furniture. It all just worked for me.  

Safe to say that you were driven by a sense of curiosity?
I think you have to be curious. The same person, let’s say, could be in exactly the same situation as I was starting out but have no curiosity or this want to understand things. I’ve always been curious and wanted to know and to learn.  

What do you think you’ve learnt about the Australian market over the years – how has the domestic client evolved or changed?
I’d say they’re more invested…  Melbourne has always had a real appreciation for the design, it’s always been at the forefront of design. Sydney is very close, but ultimately has exceptional real estate market and that attracts that international client too. And Queensland, in the last two decades, is the one market that I’ve seen really evolve – now they truly gravitate towards exceptional architecture, beautiful interiors and there’s an understanding of lifestyle design and what that adds too. And that’s very exciting… I mean I remember being on the floor [in Brisbane] and being abused for the price – ‘how could you justify charging that for that?’ So there was a big gap between what we did and an acceptance or a want to understand things. Whereas now, I think that the interior space has evolved so significantly that people are genuinely invested.  

Does that reflect the Space offer – how has that evolved?
Look, we’re very fortunate to have represented the world’s best. And we continue to do so. I think from a collections point of view, things haven’t changed a lot. From my position I see more of an evolution in direction and ownership of brands rather than the product development as such. Where once we were dealing with a family business now it’s potentially been sold to an equity firm, so the management is different. And that’s actually great in that it provides different forms of rigour around the business and their next steps, while they remain incredibly respectful to the heritage and the craftsmanship of the product.  

What is ‘good’ design to you?
People want to enjoy the product. So, intrinsically, it has to be functional. I’ve always lent on, and maybe it’s a bit of a cop out when we’re having these conversations, but I actually struggle to articulate exceptional design and I think that’s a good thing. Because it should just naturally form an attraction for someone.

It should be subjective. Which plays to people looking for something unique – especially in pushing back against certain homogenisation that tends to blanket areas of design at times.
Yes, it’s about something that stands out and that could be the one piece of crafted stone from an obscure artisan, or it could be the macramé pieces from Monica Armani for BB Outdoor because of the inspiration and the heritage behind that.

Do you think heritage plays a more notable role in the consumer’s mind?
I mean, some people don’t care – you occasionally have the client that’s like, ‘I just need this done.’ But intrinsically, there’s a connection towards the quality or the craftsmanship without articulating it. 

COVID was a strange retail environment to say the least – there were some sharp gains as much as there was swirling unpredictability. What were the learnings the business took from this time?
It was difficult because you’re managing the unknown – you’re trying to work with the team and create some stability. So, it was ‘team first’ and how you manage that calmly and consistently. I think, ultimately, that period really delivered a strong learning for the team about working with clients remotely. There were many challenges through it, but all of a sudden it forced this progression; all of a sudden you’re working with a client based in Taiwan who’s just bought a property in Sydney and you can actually work with that client for a turnkey solution for an interior. So I think that learning and the excitement that delivered, to be able to work with clients in a different way, was a huge positive that came out of that time for us.  

You mention Taiwan. Which makes us think of Malaysia and what’s happening for Space with a new showroom. How you found the market, say, compared to Singapore?
The markets are very different. Singapore, it’s the flagship showroom of about four-and-a-half thousand square metres and architecturally it’s magnificent – two heritage buildings connected by a beautiful glass box as a flagship space. It’s exceptional for our collections and a great hub. Malaysia I’ve aligned it to the evolution of Brisbane. It’s like in the last five years there’s been this appetite for quality craftsmanship and therefore, design is starting to seep into that day-to-day conversation. That said, the market is, well, there’s challenges within the market because you have a very large divide between ultra-high net worth. It’s very different to Australia, where in many cases we’re very fortunate to have a really strong aspirational market that move into becoming long-term clients. Whereas in Malaysia, that divide sits a little bit further apart. But there’s definitely an appetite for quality design.  

Let’s talk about this lavish and wonderful new Australian showroom in which we sit – the B&B Italia Outdoor showroom. It’s quite the coup.
Yes, the first in the world. It came from many conversations and informed the natural evolution with our partner. We’ve had the fortune of representing them over the last three decades as BB Italia. And the strength and what they bring to that partnership has grown exponentially over the last, I’d say, 10 to 15 years too.  

There’s a warmth and light to the space – it’s hard to even recall what stood before in Longrain restaurant.
I love that word – warmth – when we talk about this space, because that’s absolutely right. Beautiful light, beautiful warmth.  

Is the outdoor segment still overlooked somewhat – even in Australia?
I’d say it’s underestimated in what it can add. We recently worked on a beautiful house in Mosman [Sydney] and we ended up furnishing the outdoor area all the way through their full ground floor with outdoor B&B. Because the way in which it transitions seamlessly and, like the investment in fabrics and decorative elements, the design is exceptional. And obviously everyone can come out the pool, come inside on the floors, you’re not worried about fabrics, et cetera. So I think that natural evolution is definitely starting and clients are starting to see value in that as well. Look at the Renzo Piano building in Barangaroo [Sydney] and it’s all winter gardens – so by nature, you are doing the indoor outdoor space.
 

You travelled to Milan for the fair this year – it’s still important to be there?
From a relationship point of view, I think it’s incredibly important. Has it changed shape? Definitely. Will it continue to change? Absolutely. But I think it has to. And if you take a step back, and it’s always interesting to have conversations with people who’ve been in the industry for three or four decades, because there’s a general nod of respect to the fair and what it’s done for the industry over that time. So, rather than just look at it in isolation now, ‘is it shrinking? Is it growing? Is it valid?’ It’s about – ‘what did the fair bring to the industry?’ And I think it’s actually a very important comment – it’s been a central design hub annually and beyond. And it’s a great city with a great energy.

Broadly speaking – was there much conversation around Australia design?
We’re kind of humbled by the fact that the people that we work with are so well recognised on an international stage, for sure. A lot of our brands, Baxter being one, there’s always commentary. And the quality of work that comes out of Australia from a design perspective is definitely world class. And our population’s not huge, right? It’s tiny. So to have that kind of quality of growth in areas of arts and creativity is exceptional. I think of the likes of Flack [Studio] and Don Cameron’s work or what Orchard Piper are developing in Melbourne. There’s exceptional quality of work that is definitely recognised on the international stage.  

What are we recognised for within design?
That’s a good question. I’d say, broadly speaking, it’s the quality of the work.  

There’s always robust chat around sustainability in this industry – ultimately, though, good design is at the forefront of all given its longevity.
I think that the discovery journey here is, no one’s doing it perfectly. But you have to start somewhere. And that was definitely an angle we took years ago now. We admitted that we can’t control what our manufacturers do, though it’s important to work with brands that work towards a more sustainable future and we also know they do an exceptional job from an environmental point of view – we’ve seen the factories, we understand how they produce working environments, energy costs, how they manage sustainability, especially with B&B Outdoor and the efforts they’re putting into sustainable fabrics, engineering, longevity, all of these aspects. And we also drew a line in the sand several years ago to say, ‘okay, as a retailer, what’s our impact?’ Which is, ‘okay, what’s our carbon emissions on shipping?’ Because that’s within our control. How do we reduce that? What does that look like if we’re to offset that, but understanding what our actual emissions were, that’s what we can control. And then we started to look at certain products like the Husk chair, the Royce [armchair], the Caristo [armchair], and say, okay, if we’re to focus and hone in on a couple of products, what does that look like? To then truly understand the cost to the environment on those products and how we work to better offset that, or better manage that moving forward. Do we have fabric bags for product that goes out on loans rather than plastic bags? Yes. Do we have recycled means? Yes. I mean, these are all small improvements that we’ve made internally. But to your point – I’ll still always come back to ‘buy once, buy well’. Whenever anyone talks about sustainability, it’s like, you make the investment to last a lifetime.